Stomach Acid and Digestion Issues Commonly Misdiagnosed

[00:00:00] Rebecca: My guest, Steve Wright is with us to share information about heartburn, acid reflux, bloating, and digestion. And you may be surprised by some of the answers he gives to my questions today. This is going to be an eye opening conversation. So make sure to stick around. 

[00:00:18] Announcer: Welcome to a healthy bite you're one nibble closer to a more satisfying way of life, a healthier you and bite size bits of healthy motivation. Now let's dig in on the dish with Rebecca Huff. 

[00:00:34] Rebecca: So, Steve, I know that you started Healthy Gut because you had some issues of your own. Can you tell us just a little bit of your background and your backstory of why and how you got started into this?

[00:00:45] Steven: Yeah. Well, thanks for having me on, Rebecca and. I'm like most people I've kind of fall into the wounded healer archetype. I was actually born with a birth defect called a hydrocele hernia, which is where the ball sack doesn't officially close for for boys. And my intestines were kind of pinched in there.

[00:01:01] And so when I was awake, I was just crying and spitting up all the food. I couldn't, I was just in too much pain. And so I only gained a pound by 12 weeks and at 12 weeks they finally listened to my mom and did an exam. She. You know, saying, Hey, something's wrong with my son this whole time.

[00:01:16] They kept blaming her saying she was a new mom and she didn't know what she was talking about. So anyways, hopefully. You know, doctors have evolved back, you know, past the eighties, early eighties were . But they gave me an antispasmodic and the pain, you know, was able to be tolerated. And I was able to like keep food down and, you know, so luckily in a way, Western medicine saved my life.

[00:01:34] And then only later on, did I suffer a lot of issues due to Western medicine including like four years of antibiotics for cystic acne. That ended up with me being in the hospital, waking up because I had basically wiped out my entire microbiome. So there was like a lot of things between stress, genetics, family history.

[00:01:53] And then I had a bit of an Animal house, like engineering school experience with too much beer and pizza. And so one day I'm in my dream job. I'm in Chicago, in a high rise and I'm having bloating that makes me cry and tear up after every meal. Doesn't matter if it's chicken and salad or beer and burgers with clients.

[00:02:13] And if you've ever gotten that be loaded and you have the pain from it, which is called visceral hypersensitivity, you know that basically there's only one way to make it go away. And that's too fart, you have to get the gas out cause it's pushing. On your nerves and, and causing pain. So that meant I was crop dusting the office.

[00:02:30] Cause I didn't really have any other options. I'm like 16 floors up. I can't just go outside. You know, I can just go to the bathroom. I'm not gonna get any work done on my cubicle. So I became the stinky guy in the office and had a lot of shame and guilt around that. And then one day my boss called me in the office and said, Hey, everybody's complaining, you gotta get this handled.

[00:02:48] And so I had so many other opportunities to wake up to my issues and, you know, seek other options. But that was kind of like the, the two by four of the head moment for myself, that was like, all right, this is threatening my dream job. And I'm not, I'm very embarrassed. You know, I'm missing dates, I'm having accidents on commuter buses.

[00:03:11] Like this is outta control. And so. I sought three different opinions in Chicago from like, you know, quote unquote, top doctors. They all were like, Hey, you don't have celiac, you should eat more whole grains take Metamucil,, you'll be fine. Suck it up. It's a family history. You're you're like, not that sick.

[00:03:28] If you would see the other patients in my office, you just need to suck it up kid. And so I tried only to like, end up on the toilet, like six weeks later, all night long. And that was like my break point where I was like, you know, screw this. I can't be the only one to have had these issues. And my training in college was electrical engineering.

[00:03:46] And in electrical engineering, you're, you're solving for stuff. You can't see, you can't touch, you don't know all the problems when you walk up to a robot and you try to solve for why is it broken? Why is your car not working? Why is the human body any different? And so that became, you know, my fuel, my anger, plus my need to figure this.

[00:04:07] Drove me into nutrition changes. The SCD diet helped me right away, but I mean, it only get, it only like took away about 50% of that bloat. And so I was like, well, I need it all gone. And so once I, but once I like kept taking steps and getting results, I became more empowered at every step. And so then I just also have this weird part about me where

[00:04:30] I am more afraid of not getting to the final result than I am staying where I am. So a lot of people see that as like I'm risky because I'll try stuff from like Asia or Russia, or I don't care where it comes from, as long as it's pretty clear people aren't dying from it. And there's potential benefit

[00:04:47] for whatever I'm trying to fix for myself, whether it was my eyesight or my exercise induced asthma or my GI problems, I would try it. 

[00:04:55] And so that kind of just led to this place where I kept going to trainings, get my functional medicine certification. And every time that I, I learned something about my own body.

[00:05:05] And I saw that there was research on the internet, like from actual scientists, somewhere around the world, but nobody was talking about it. I was like, this is bull crap. Like someone has to write about this. Someone has to get the word out. And so this was like 2009, 10, 11, 12. And so, yeah, it's been, it's been quite a journey over the last 12 years, couple hundred grand or 400 grand lots.

[00:05:27] You know, both being like totally all about it. Like, Hey, nutrition will save you to nutrition, can't save anybody. It's just one little step on the way to you know, the functional medicine is the answer to functional medicine. Can't do everything. And then now here we are, starting so many supple my company.

[00:05:44] Rebecca: Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So many things from what you just said. Well, first of all, I have to say kudos to your mom, for pressing forward, cuz that's awful. When a doctor, when you're a new mother and you know, something is wrong. I mean, mothers have instincts for a reason. So that must have been horrible for her to know that there was something wrong and not have the doctors listening.

[00:06:04] Ugh. And then for you at your job, wow. That's a great success story. And then about Your thoughts about going back and forth I've been through. The gamut of all of that. I had just had all of these emotions when you were talking about that, because I'll share a little bit of my story. With you cuz I think it's very fascinating that, you know, you get people with heartburn, you get people with acid reflux, you get people with bloating and digestion issues and you think, okay, there's something going on here.

[00:06:35] Is it, you know, celiac? Is it some kind of IBS thing what's going on? Well, I have, from my story. It's I had no digestion problems whatsoever. I had zero energy and I had the worst brain fog ever. I was pregnant with my fifth child and I could barely walk from the bathroom to my bedroom without feeling like I was just.

[00:07:01] I had been working out all day. I was completely exhausted. I was on a raw vegan diet, which at that time was, I was told, this was back in 2005. It's the best diet you can be on. You're eating God, you know, all of God's creation, raw foods, you know, and I lived in Florida, so had access to all of the, you know, freshly grown avocados and nuts and seeds and citrus fruits.

[00:07:27] And I had a green smoothie every morning for breakfast. And I had no energy. I couldn't hardly even walk around my house. So I went to this doctor, he was really big on the Hallelujah acres diet. And he said, well, you're so you're following the Raw Vegan diet.

[00:07:42] And I'm like, yeah. And he goes, well, you're, digestion's probably just all messed up. You're not absorbing nutrients. I don't think you're producing any stomach acid. So he does this test, this Heidelberg test, and I swallow the little transmitter and then, you know, He gives you other things to see if your, your stomach will produce stomach acid, and then you get this printout and you actually see from this test that my stomach was not producing.

[00:08:05] It wasn't even showing up on the chart. Wow. So he gave me some supplements to take and I started taking them and problem solved. Suddenly I started absorbing nutrients and he then suggested, of course, you know, you maybe need to eat some meat and maybe some eggs and a little fat. So I did those things fast forward, about seven or eight years later, I kind of fell off the wagon and forgot to take those things.

[00:08:31] And suddenly I started having some stomach pain and I also didn't feel good and I was having brain fog. And of course, because of the brain fog, I didn't think, oh yeah. My body, isn't producing,. I need stomach acid to cuz I was eating organic fruits and vegetables and meat. At this time I was even eating grass, fed meat and all this stuff, but I felt horrible and I couldn't figure out why.

[00:08:54] So, because I had my great healthcare insurance plan. I decided to go to the doctor and my husband went with me and I told the doctor my symptoms. And of course he said, You have too much stomach acid, your body is producing too much stomach acid. So here here's this PPI take it, and all your problems will be gone.

[00:09:15] And my husband and I looked at each other because we both knew that I had low stomach acid. And there is a name for that. But we just looked at each other and he started to write out his prescription, the doctor. And I was like, I'm sorry, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but you don't need to write that prescription because I'm not going to take a PPI.

[00:09:33] I have low stomach acid and he was immediately very offended and started fear mongering me and basically just said, well, you'll be back in here, you don't have to take my prescription, but you'll be back in here within six months and we'll be sticking a tube down your throat. And. My husband and I just left and.

[00:09:51] He had said that it kind of was like a light bulb going on in my head. Oh yeah. I have low stomach acid. I'm not getting any nutrients from my food because obviously I'm not di digesting my food. So I went back and I started looking around and I actually ran upon your SCD blog the website where you talk about low stomach acid.

[00:10:12] And that's where I just kind of got back on track and found out that you were creating some products that would help with this. And so I switched from what my doctor had been giving me before, because by this time this doctor had retired and I started taking your products. And that's how, I guess we kind of got to know each other.

[00:10:30] So I think it's so fascinating that your symptoms and my symptoms were completely different, but we had similar problems, right? 

[00:10:39] Steven: Yeah. I mean, this is a misconception that a lot of smart people make is that they. I mean, look, we are meaning making machines and the way we make meaning about the world in our body and what happens is heavily influenced based on what we hear and what we've been exposed to.

[00:10:57] And so just being exposed to this show right now is gonna change the way you make meaning about your future aches and pains and frustrations about the world and your body. And. What is universal. However, is that the, the body, all, all of our bodies are like actually 80 to 90%. The same, like we are, yes, we're all snowflakes.

[00:11:18] And we all have our own genetics and epigenetics, and our own toxin loads and our own microbiomes. That's all true. But 80 to 90% of everything is also the same. And so if some of those main organ functions start to shut down, You can see, you know, a lot of different presentations because of our snowflake, I guess mm-hmm and one of those things is the stomach.

[00:11:44] Like the stomach is the heavy lifting job of digestion. I mean, a lot of people. Wanna talk about all different parts about your digestion and forget about the stomach, but the stomach is an amazing organ. I mean, the environment inside that thing is like acids strong enough to like hurt metal. And it's like this giant muscular sack that has to like, you know, we're like on the run, taking care of our kids or run into the job, or like, I got the next zoom call and we're just, you know, cramming, even organic food down there and like forgetting to chew.

[00:12:15] And then the stomach's like, oh man, Plug it in for another hard day at the office today, I gotta turn these almonds into, you know, mush cause cause somebody upstairs, Steven upstairs, wasn't chewing again. right. But without that, you can't unlock the nutrients from the food. And then that's where, that's where it becomes this thing where people can have low stomach acid and they can have acid reflux, but they may never have acid reflux and they could have constipation or they may never have constipation.

[00:12:43] They could have diarrhea and it could still be. You know, low of stomach acid, you could have hair, skin and nail problems, right? You could be taking all the biotin, all the collagen and just trying to make your hair and skin look good. And it doesn't work. And the whole reason, why was your, your stomach acid.

[00:13:00] Because your stomach isn't unlocking the protein structures so that you can actually absorb them. 

[00:13:05] Rebecca: So true, by the way you have great hair, obviously you're digesting your nutrients. thank you. I actually looked up the statistics on this and found that about a hundred million PPI prescriptions are given to patients annually in the United States.

[00:13:20] And then I read another review, that was a big study saying that they're obviously very widely used and still up to about 70% of patients that take them, they don't get any kind of instruction or warnings from the doctor about the serious risk that come with taking them? I had actually looked them up when this doctor tried to prescribe me the PPI.

[00:13:43] I'm like, what is this? The one that he tried to prescribe me, without performing any tests whatsoever was the strongest possible one you can write a prescription for, and I know a lot of people take over the counter acid blockers. And so there are a lot of risks associated with these; dementia, Alzheimer's, vitamin and nutrient deficiencies.

[00:14:05] So the, the question that I have though, a lot of people think that they need acid blockers. So let's say someone has some symptoms of heartburn or they have acid reflux. The chances are they're gonna be prescribed this acid blocker, and most of the time without tests, how can someone determine if they actually need that prescription?

[00:14:26] Do, how do they know if they are producing too much stomach acid or perhaps, maybe they just don't have enough? 

[00:14:34] Steven: Yeah, I think this is super, super important because the body works in, in what's called like rate limiting steps, which may not, that might be gobbly go to a lot of people, but basically there's like limiting factors for how things happen.

[00:14:46] And, and as you eliminate certain limiting factors your entire like health up levels, so your entire game up levels. And so if you never check to see, is my stomach, limiting all this organic food that I'm buying, all this toxins that I'm avoiding, you could always be subtly, your foot is halfway on the brake and halfway on the gas.

[00:15:06] You'll never get anywhere usually. So you're, there's tests out there. You already mentioned one of them, it's called a Heidelberg test and there are plenty of people around the country that will run this test. There is a newer test called a GI pill capsule test. This one has like a little radio frequency thing inside of a capsule.

[00:15:24] You swallow it and it kind of like transmits through Bluetooth or some sort of technology back to a machine or to your phone. So yeah, there's some cool new technologies. The problem is, is that this is not standard of care and if any, if anybody's learned anything over the last, you know, two years, it's that if it doesn't follow the standard of care model, it can be a fight to get access to your best health basically, because doctors are just not trained in this stuff. They don't have the curiosity or the drive. Maybe they're lazy. Maybe they're just tired because they're stuck in a, in a model that sucks for them. I don't know. But a lot of 'em don't know about this, but if you really wanna check, there are tests out there.

[00:16:04] It requires a little Googling, a little planning. It will not be covered by insurance typically. Somewhere between 300 and 500 dollars. If you don't wanna do that, if you're like, Hey, I don't want the data. Cuz it, you know, it's like three to $500. The closest one's like five hour drive for me. It's just very hard.

[00:16:21] You could take the probabilities and statistics. I'm about to tell you, and make your own determination, as the adult, you are the CEO of your body. The doctors don't have the power unless you give it to them, you have the power and you need to be that person in power because. Frankly, they meet with you for 30 minutes, even an integrative physician or a functional medicine doctor meets with you for an hour.

[00:16:43] But at the end of the day, they saw like 10 people that day and they've got their own health issues and their own families. No, one's gonna care as much as you will about your own family, about your own health. So therefore the, the responsibility falls on you. So if you talk to people who do do Heidelberg.

[00:16:58] Dr. Jonathan Wright has publicly stated this. And so has Dr. Steven Sandberg Lewis, a mentor of mine. They find that about 70 to 80% of their patient population who comes in reporting of IBS or heartburn, acid reflux. When they do the capsule test, they show 70 to 80% have low stomach acid, rather than high acid or normal.

[00:17:20] So if you're presenting with these gut issues, I think there's a reasonable probability here that you're talking somewhere between 60 to 80% chance, you actually have low acid, than high acid or normal acid. So then you could go to the next step further, which would be to buy a, Betaine HCL supplement and do something called an HCL challenge test.

[00:17:41] And this test is in the scientific literature. This is not something I created. This test has been used for like four decades now in clinical practice, this is not, space age technology. This is proven clinical stuff. And so this test is like a under $50 test you do at home where you literally take replacement acid.

[00:18:00] And find out how you feel and which is gonna end up being the solution, no matter what the test says in the first place, which is why a lot of people will just skip the test. 

[00:18:08] Rebecca: Right. Actually that is so true because even though my doctor did perform the Heidelberg test when he gave me the supplement to take, to replace my stomach acid.

[00:18:19] He had like a formula written down, you know, with your first meal, take one capsule. The next time you take a, you know, if that's tolerated the next meal, take two capsules, at the next meal, take three and work your way up until you do start to feel a little acid reflux feeling or a little heartburn.

[00:18:35] And that's when you know, you've reached your max. So that's kind of the, I guess, gold standard that he went by to determine how much my body would need. And I think too probably does it depend on the meal, you're eating? How much you like if you're eating a four ounce steak, as opposed to an eight ounce steak or a giant bowl of pasta compared to, does it depend how much you need based on what you're eating.

[00:19:01] Steven: Oh totally. Your, your stomach is sensing through your smell, through your taste buds, how much acid to produce for every single meal. And I mean, let's take the most famous meal every year. Thanksgiving meal. How many people have bloating acid reflux or just general fatigue after Thanksgiving meal versus.

[00:19:20] You know, a random Tuesday or Wednesday meal and the answer is a lot. Yeah. So, you know, our bodies are doing their best, but they only have like a certain amount of range that they can do to produce that acid. And, and the enzymes that go along with that acid. We mentioned in the beginning of the show that everybody's kind of the same, but everyone's kind of different.

[00:19:38] And so the HCL challenge test helps you figure out. Like where you're different. And so some people only need like three caps per meal. Some people only need like, you know, five or six caps. Some people only need one capsule per meal. It is dependent on protein. So if you don't like eat a protein meal, like let's just say it's like a strawberry salad or something.

[00:19:57] Mm-hmm you're probably not gonna take replacement acid for that. Or like, let's say it's a green juice or something like that. Mm-hmm , you're not gonna take it for that, but any sort of. Legumes meat, potatoes, vegetables you know, eggs, things like that. You're gonna, you're gonna take it as long as it's over seven grams of like real food.

[00:20:15] You're probably gonna take your Betaine HCL supplement. 

[00:20:18] Rebecca: Mm-hmm . Right. I know we paid for this test out of pocket. So if someone, like you were saying, you know, it's too far for them to go to find a doctor who was willing to perform this test or they can't afford it.

[00:20:31] And you know, 50 bucks to buy a bottle of supplements or something like that would be a lot more doable. Is that kind of similar to how you recommend that people test their tolerance? Do they start out with just one capsule or how do they do that? 

[00:20:48] Steven: ,Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, even if you get a PPI, they're gonna give you the exact same instructions.

[00:20:53] They're gonna start you out usually at 10 milligrams, or if you're a little person, maybe five milligrams, but most people start at 10 and they're gonna say, Hey, if you don't get resolution from your symptoms, take two, 20 milligrams. Like this is not like some mind blowing idea. They use it in pharmaceuticals as well as supplements.

[00:21:11] And so mm-hmm with HCL guard or any sort of Betaine HCL product. I always tell people, look, you've gotta find what's right for your body. And so start with one pill with dinner that first day. And if you don't notice anything then you probably are gonna go up to two pills the next day, but let's say you do notice some, like like you said, heartburn, symptoms, pain upsetness, things like that.

[00:21:33] You could take a little baking soda, it'll nullify that, and then you, you can get your money back from our company. At least I don't think you can do that with every company. It's one of the reasons why we offer it because I want people to be able to try this risk free, right? Because it is a little weird.

[00:21:46] You do have to have some courage to try it. You gotta be kind of quirky and be like, wait a second. Are you saying 80% of people are wrong? And most of us have low stomach acid. I'm like, yeah, we, I am actually there science behind that. Yeah. 

[00:22:00] Rebecca: Well, let me back up for just a second. Can you explain what HCL guard is?

[00:22:05] Steven: Yeah, so inside of our stomachs we produce something called gastric juice in the majority of gastric juice is hydrochloric acid. And so. Right now let's say you're fasting or it's like first thing in the morning, you haven't put anything in your, your stomach. You're gonna be between like a three, you're gonna be around a three on the pH scale. Seven is neutral and below seven is acidic and above seven is, is basic. And most people are like, oh, I need alkaline. I need, I need to be more basic, which is mostly bull. Especially in the gut. 

[00:22:37] Most of the gut needs to be acidic, especially the stomach and the colon, the small intestines, a little bit more alkaline, but the stomach needs to be very acidic because it has to, has to kill any bugs that are, that are in your saliva, in the air you're swallowing. 

[00:22:51] So like, you know, we're pretty attuned now that there's microbes on everything we touch and it doesn't matter how good you wash your food. You're still eating bugs. Your, your, your stomach has to kill those things. It also has. Open up all the food and liquefy it. And what I mean, open it up.

[00:23:05] It's almost like think of gastric juice as the water that opens the protein flour. Protein are these tightly balled up, think of like a, the steak that you eat. It's like this crazy fibrous material. The stomach will open that up into these more interesting structures that can be attacked by enzymes. And once they're attacked and broken off, then we can absorb them.

[00:23:28] And so gastric juice. The acid. And then it's the enzyme, at least Pepsin enzyme, which is a protein enzyme and then also intrinsic factor. And there may be other molecules in there, but science hasn't been focused on it, so we don't know if there's other cool stuff in there. There probably will be something found.

[00:23:46] But at this point in time, we at least know that there's acid Pepsin, and intrinsic factor. Intrinsic factor is the bouncer that grabs B12 because as you open up these protein balls and as you liquefy your broccoli cell wall, All those cool nutrients you read on the back of the label of the food. They get thrown out into the mixture and they can be destroyed.

[00:24:07] Some of them can be, and one of them B12 is very fragile and needs to be grabbed by intrinsic factors. So you can absorb it later in the small intestine. 

[00:24:15] So that's kind of what's happening in your. As you, as you release this gastric juice, your pH will drop from like a three down to like a 1.5 over an hour or two. And that's the signal that dropping of stomach acids which is means it's getting stronger, which I understand this is confusing. It took me like 10 years to get it is actually the signal to the bottom of your stomach to start releasing the liquified food into your small intestines. 

[00:24:39] So if it doesn't get that strength, if it doesn't get strong, The bottom of the stomach, won't open in the right time, which is how you get really fast. Stools like, like loose stools as well as slow stools and constipated from the exact same physiologic outcome. 

[00:24:57] Rebecca: That makes a lot of sense. And really, it just like connects all the dots too, because one of the things, whenever I needed stomach acid is I, I mentioned in telling my story that I was so tired I couldn't hardly walk from one room to the other without just feeling like I was gonna pass out. I had no B12, my body wasn't absorbing any and I was eating all food and, but I mean, well, that's a problem with the raw vegan diet, but that's a whole nother podcast episode. 

[00:25:24] Steven: so, so real quick, how fast did you get more energy once you started taking the BT HCL?

[00:25:28] Supple? 

[00:25:29] Rebecca: Oh, it was, it was pretty quick within weeks. I mean, my, yeah, within weeks, my body bounced back. I started getting, you know, just the brain fog lifted because suddenly my body was absorbing nutrients from food that I was actually starting to digest and it ever all of the problems I had reversed because suddenly all this wonderful, expensive food that I was eating was actually being absorbed by my body.

[00:25:56] I was getting the nutrients out of it. So the B12 was a huge, 

[00:26:00] Steven: that's super that's common. Mm-hmm right. That, and that's super common. I, I actually call BT and HCL supplements, like light switch supplements, cuz they're not like vitamin D or vitamin C. Like you could take those products forever and never really know.

[00:26:12] You could never really feel anything, but, but if you have low stomach acid and you have low energy, like usually in a week or two, you will start getting your energy back. And it's almost like the lights came back on. 

[00:26:23] Rebecca: Oh, definitely. That's, what's so crazy about it. And, you know, because being a. I don't know, I guess a busy mom, there have been periods of time when I've gotten out of the habit or I've ran out of it and didn't renew my, you know, subscription or whatever.

[00:26:37] And I stopped taking them for a little while. There was one time. I think I got so bad that I was even depressed, I couldn't hardly come out of my room. I had anxiety. I was just like, I didn't wanna be around anyone, I was so low energy, low. Vibe. Everything was just bottomed out. And like I said, I started back taking the supplements within a month.

[00:26:59] I was back to normal again. So you, you know, it's just, I've repeated this process enough times to know that I have to have my nutrients from, and the only way to get them is to help my body digest them. I don't know. Does your body ever repair, if you have low stomach acid or is this something that you're gonna be doing for the rest of your life?

[00:27:21] Steven: Yes. And so a lot of times people will get off of their HCL supplementation. So I would say that for customers of HCL guard, I would say average customers on it for like six to 12 months. And then they typically bridge off of it. The, the question we always have to ask is why? Why is the stomach not able to produce the right amount of acid every time we eat, whatever we eat. And, and so there's typically tests you could do. 

[00:27:47] Like I would rather, that's why I would rather save your money on the Heidelberg test and apply it to these tests. So you can test for cellular micronutrients. And that test is also gonna be 300 bucks or 400 bucks, but that's gonna show you like, if you're low in selenium or zinc, Or manganese or magnesium.

[00:28:05] Some of these minerals are very important to making stomach acids. So you could have a micronutrient deficiency, that is also exacerbated by your low stomach acid. So it's like, you'll never get, this is why I say nutrition, never fixes, nutrition doesn't fix anything. It stops a lot of pain. It stops a lot of issues.

[00:28:21] It's it's critical. To being a healthy human, but by itself, it's not gonna fix low stomach acid. You could also get checked for H Pylori, H Pylori is this bug that lives in our stomach. And basically it shuts off the stomach acid pumps around where it grows in your stomach lining. And so if it grows big enough, it shuts off enough of your stomach from producing acid.

[00:28:45] You're probably gonna be replacing acid for a long period of time. Mm-hmm , you can treat these things and a lot of people will get better and replace their nutrients, maybe get rid of their active H. Pylori infection, and then they'll end up, you know, bridging off of HCL. But we all have to keep in mind that, like, you know, we're aware that our hair.

[00:29:06] Typically grays with aging. We're aware that our ovaries shut down with aging, our testes shut down with aging, our eyesight ages. You have to start to get aware that your, your stomach and your intestines age as well. And it's just an assumption like, well, if I eat healthy enough or. If I, if I'm doing the low toxin life, I'll be fine.

[00:29:28] Well, you're, you're assuming that your, your stomach's not tired. You're assuming your small, intestine's not tired. You're pancreas and that's, that's a bad assumption. The, the literature shows they last a little bit longer than say our hair, but they, they still peeter out at some point and they start giving out.

[00:29:43] And so if you've led a high stress life, type a life, I don't know, five kids sounds pretty intense to me. Six!. six kids. so you might need stomach replacement for a really long time, if not the rest of your life to do. 

[00:29:57] Rebecca: Yeah, I feel like I do. I did have the tests, the H pylori tests. It was negative. And I think there isn't there a pretty decent connection, like research studies between H pylori and stomach acid.

[00:30:11] Steven: Correct. Yeah. Yeah. So H. Pylori lowers stomach acid to survive. 

[00:30:15] Rebecca: But there's a lot of there's, there's scientific evidence for this. It's not just something that you're just randomly, so doctors are aware of this and when you go, if you have symptoms of heartburn and you get a good doctor, they might test you for H. Pylori, right?

[00:30:31] Steven: Yeah, that's true. That's true. A lot of you usually have to make it to like a gastroenterologist for them to be aware of that, but yes. Okay. H. Pylori is a medical diagnosis by the Western medical system, like the standard of care system. So you could get to that point where they check you for that mm-hmm and they know that stomach acid matters because the standard of care protocol is called a triple antibiotic protocol where they give you typically an Acid suppressing drug called bismeth along with three different types of antibiotics to kill off H. Pylori. 

[00:31:01] Now, I think that's overkill and I don't believe in making the body more inhabitable by bugs. I would like to make my body as resilient as possible and as least inhabitable. And so in the functional medicine and integrative medical worlds, they have a lot of protocols that include Betaine HCL.

[00:31:19] And other acid or H. Pylori lower killing herbs, like mastic gum mm-hmm things like that. And so I I'm a bigger fan of those because they have a lot less risk of damage frankly, to the body than the triple antibiotic therapy. But you're gonna have to be the adult and listen to the various points of view on that one and, and choose the right path for you. 

[00:31:39] Rebecca: Mm-hmm mm-hmm good point. I know I'm gonna get this question. So I wanna ask you. If someone is already taking an acid blocker and they're really, I mean, I know a lot of people who take acid blockers. I know they're overprescribed. So I'm feeling like I'm gonna get this question.

[00:31:57] What if someone is taking an acid blocker and they're not sure, or they still have some symptoms, maybe they have some IBS type symptoms or they still have acid reflux and maybe their doctors even encouraging them to take a stronger acid blocker. What can, what are these people, like? What kind of solution is there? Can someone taking an acid blocker still do these tests? 

[00:32:21] Steven: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think I know what you're getting at. So Yeah. First thing is there is one severe contraindication for supplementing with Betain HCL. If you have an active ulcer or you have active gastritis, meaning you went under an endoscopic scope and they're like, Hey, you have ulcers. You have, you know, active gastritis. This means your mucus membrane has worn down to, to nothing. And you have like these active open wounds on the inside of your body. You should not Take Betaine HCL products from any company, ours included.

[00:32:52] If you do not have that going on, they're pretty, they're pretty safe, as long as you don't like, if you take it and you feel pain, take the baking soda, try one more time. If you get the same result, then it's not for you. Mm-hmm . But as long as you're not feeling pain, then, then you should be just fine.

[00:33:08] And so the question is then, technically, you could take an HCL supplement with an acid blocker. You're you're essentially doing two things at the same time. So it's like kind of Contra counterintuitive. You're saying like, Hey, don't produce any acid yourself, but I'll replace all the acid myself. Right.

[00:33:26] Mm-hmm it's it's like, you're telling your stomach to like, don't do it, your job. I'll I'll do it for you manually. Mm-hmm so it's kind. You could do that. That's how the research studies are done. They give like a, like a really intense acid blocker for like either one time or for a number of days. And then they give Betaine HCL in the, in the, in the studies to say like, Hey, does this actually raise acid?

[00:33:47] And there's been three or four human clinical trials now done. And they all show, yes, it does. It does restore acid function. So, however long term. You're probably gonna wanna bridge off of that PPI and then onto an HCL supplement. And you should taper off of that. Don't just, don't just go cold Turkey work with the provider who gave you the prescription.

[00:34:11] If that provider's being Difficult like, and not a good consultant, cuz doctors really are consultants. Then fire them and go seek another general practitioner who will show you how to taper off of your, your PPI. Cuz you should taper like do not take this at right. Like again, be an adult here. A lot of people are like blaming everybody cause of what's happening.

[00:34:27] Like. If you quit your, if you quit your prescription and then blame Rebecca or me, I'm gonna tell you that you're being a little child. like, listen to your doctor. Right? They do, they do have protocols for a lot of things. And one of them that is true, is that you need to taper off your PPIs. Right. And do that under medical supervision is what I would recommend. 

[00:34:46] Rebecca: Because if you're taking an acid blocker and you just cold Turkey stop taking it, you're probably gonna get a sudden burst of acid production. Right. Is that that's what happens. 

[00:34:57] Steven: You can get rebound, you can get rebound acid issues. Yeah, there can, there can be complications. Okay. In, in tap, I mean, it's, it's a powerful drug. I mean, it is really, is, is it is. 

[00:35:07] Rebecca: So definitely listen to Steve's suggestion and, and take your doctor's advice and it, and taper off of that slowly. But I did have another question that was related to your response there. And it was, if someone is, say someone is taking an acid blocker and they already have low stomach acid. What, how does this exacerbate the problem and what kind of symptoms would they be getting? 

[00:35:34] Steven: So. I mean, here's what we know. Like if you stay on, on low acid, like you, you do. If you look at the research on proton pump inhibitors, basically you increase the chance of getting something called small intestinal bacteria overgrowth by like 60 or yeah, SIBO. It's like 60% or more. If you stay on it for like, I think it's eight to 12 weeks.

[00:35:54] So look, if you need a PPI for like four to six weeks, cuz you're just, nothing's working and Betaine HCL doesn't work, digestive enzymes don't work. You know, I don't know what else you're doing, it's not working. Just get on it and get off of it really quickly because after eight weeks, it seems to be where the the potential risk factors start to build up.

[00:36:16] And the reason is so simple people it's like so simple. It's that, if over time you stop absorbing calcium, you stop absorbing magnesium, you stop absorbing B12, all the B vitamins, you stop absorbing amino acids or protein. You will, you will lower your body's total nutrient and micronutrient stores such that there will come a point in time where it cannot heal its own self anymore, because it's been starved of these nutrients for too long, because you've been on an acid blocker for too long.

[00:36:49] And so that's why we see increased risk of, you know, bone fractures and osteoporosis increased risk of other GI issues, increased risk of brain issues from being on the PPIs too long. It's because. I personally think it's because you're just not getting the nutrients. You can't get them. If you don't have stomach acid. 

[00:37:08] Rebecca: And too, I think a symptom of that when you're, when you don't have stomach acid and when, or whether it's because you're, you have a problem with your body and it's not producing the stomach acid or you're taking a blocker, is that you're hungry a lot more often because your body's going, hello, I need some nutrients down here. Need some building blocks to work with. . 

[00:37:30] Steven: It's totally true. It's totally true. And especially, oh, here's a, like a, oh, this is like a classic case of like low stomach acid is it's mostly women cuz men are just too dull to be like this, this wise about their body. But a lot of women I've heard this story in clinic before where they, they really have like a craving for steak or red meat.

[00:37:50] But as soon as they eat it, they just feel like blah, like just like a brick is sitting inside their chest or their stomach, or they can't move for hours. And they feel this like tug of war where they're like, well, chicken's really the only meat I can eat because like, it doesn't make me feel blah, but, oh man, if I could eat a steak and, and not feel that way, I would.

[00:38:10] And that is like a classic symptom of low stomach acid. 

[00:38:14] Rebecca: Yeah, it sounds so relatable. And I don't know if that's because I did the raw vegan diet or because of the stomach acid, because it all occurred at the same time, but I, what you were saying, it was like dejavu, while you were saying it. 

[00:38:29] Steven: Oh, wow. Yeah. Well, I mean, red meat is significantly higher in nutrients in micronutrients than chicken is. But it's also a little bit harder to break down because of all those nutrients, micronutrients and fatty acids that chicken does not have. And so it makes chicken a little easier to digest than red meat, but red meat, if you are micronutrient starved, you're gonna, you're gonna drive for probably fish or red meat more than you will drive you know, chicken or, or something else. 

[00:38:56] Rebecca: Wow. I mean, I know you have so much information on your website. Do you have like a start here place on your website, a quiz people can take, or how do people get started if they wanna figure this.

[00:39:08] Steven: Yeah, sure. We, we did create a, a low stomach acid quiz that people could go take it's on the website that will kind of like give you a higher or lower probability, if, if you have low stomach acid, mm-hmm . But at the end of the day, I would say, just use the coupon and use our refund policy to try HCL guard and just do the test this month.

[00:39:28] Just put it on like, Hey, I have one health goal this month. I'm gonna see if stomach acid is a problem for me. And, and so, you know, Suzanne summers mentions HCL and pretty much all of her antiaging books, like you're trying, yeah, if you're trying to like, have. Hair, skin, nails, you need amino acids. If you're trying to have lots of energy, you need B12.

[00:39:48] So it doesn't have to just be that you have gut upset complaints. It could be other health things. Mm-hmm I would say, you know, use the coupon, try HCL guard. If it doesn't work you know, email us, my, we have health coaches on staff. We have a, a customer's Facebook group because we know that doing the HCL challenge can be a little cumbersome for some people and a little confusing. So we're here to walk you through it every step of the way. And if it doesn't work, we'll give you your money back. I don't want to keep your money. I'd rather you try an enzyme or, or go buy whatever nutrient your body actually needs because you check that off the list.

[00:40:23] Like, Hey stomach, acid's not a problem for me. And I think that's like peace of mind right there. If you really wanna, you know, dive into this. 

[00:40:30] Rebecca: That's a great point make sure you guys check there'll be a coupon code in the show notes.

[00:40:34] You can also grab that so you can try this and see if you potentially have low stomach acid. Thanks, Steve. 

[00:40:41] Steven: Thanks Rebecca.

[00:40:47] Announcer: Thanks for listening. Please write and review so other people can learn about this podcast. Find out more about sleep hygiene, eating healthy tasty recipes, zero waste lifestyle, and lots more on that organic mom.com. Help us spread the word. Be blessed and stay healthy.

1. Forgacs, Ian, and Aathavan Loganayagam. “Overprescribing proton pump inhibitors.” BMJ (Clinical research ed.) vol. 336,7634 (2008): 2-3. doi:10.1136/bmj.39406.449456.BE
2. Stack, B H. “Use of the Heidelberg pH capsule in the routine assessment of gastric acid secretion.” Gut vol. 10,3 (1969): 245-6. doi:10.1136/gut.10.3.245
3. https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/003883.htm
4. Koyyada, Arun. “Long-term use of proton pump inhibitors as a risk factor for various adverse manifestations.” Therapie vol. 76,1 (2021): 13-21. doi:10.1016/j.therap.2020.06.019
5. https://healthygut.com/the-multi-billion-dollar-ppi-malpractice-mystery/

Over Prescribed America: https://www.topmastersinhealthcare.com/drugged-america/

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