Emotional Healing Process For Healthier Generations with Diana Cannon Ragsdale

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Rebecca: After reading your book, I was, Actually so amazed at the progress and healing that you undertook in your own life. And so I wanted to ask you a really important question. Is it possible to heal emotional wounds from physical or mental abuse so that we can create healthier generations to.

Diana: I believe it’s possible, but I’ve always been kind of an eternal optimist. I think I developed that as a coping skill as a young, at a young age, just because of all of the chaos I was raised with. So I think you, I think you develop that as a coping skill. That’s my belief anyway. And even though as bad as things were, I’ve always kind of been an optimist and I think that’s, definitely helped me in my life.

Diana: My biggest accomplishment in my life and my biggest love is being a mother. And I’ve always wanted to be a mother, and I’m so proud of my kids and my grandchildren that for me, I have to believe it’s possible to heal wounds just for them and for generations to come. it’s a lot of work and it’s been a lot of work for them, but in the end, I feel like it’s possible and totally worth it if everybody’s willing to do the work.

Rebecca: Wow, I never thought about that. But something that you said makes a lot of sense is. You became an eternal optimist as a coping mechanism, and I think I can see where that might have happened in other people that I know who survived childhood abuse and neglect; is that they become these just hyper -optimist almost.

Rebecca: So that’s fascinating for you to have pointed that out. , I really wanna, 

Diana: Yeah, it took me a long time to figure that out, but, 

Rebecca: but you apparently did, and I think that’s, that’s the first time I’ve ever heard of that. And I think it’s amazing to point that out, as part of the emotional healing process.

Rebecca: Because, you know, we look at optimists and we’re like, Oh wow, they’re, they’re such an optimists. I wish I could be an optimist, but sometimes it’s not always from a place of health and total positivity. Sometimes it can be a coping mechanism. So fascinating. 

Diana: Absolutely. 

Rebecca: Yeah. So as we’re talking about emotional healing process, what are some of the methods that you use to release the damaging past that you had went through? mental health therapies or any other ways that you used to move forward to heal? 

Diana: Well, you know, I, I wish I could say that I, you know, had figured this all out early on in my life and started the process early. But it wasn’t until I was in my late forties that I kind of started to really, be honest about the way things really were and how dysfunctional and chaotic my life had been up until that point. I feel like my pride and kind of our family pride kept me from being honest about that. 

Diana: I just always thought that I was Handling all this chaos so well, because my, you know, our family, we always just, our mantra was, you know, just pull yourself up by the bootstraps and take the bull by the horns, and we’re stronger than this and we don’t have mental illness.

Diana: We’re just, you know, everybody’s challenged and we can, we can do this and we don’t need help. So I think my pride got in my way for a lot of years, which I’m kind of bummed about, but I think things happen for a reason. , mm-hmm. . , but for me, I just finally, once I did realize that things weren’t normal and that I was.

Diana: You know, really, really suffering. It was just becoming honest and vulnerable about it, which was hard. It was hard for me to, especially the vulnerability piece, because, you know, I had always been pretty stoic about how hellish things had been. Mm-hmm. and, , Once I was able to really look at it and be honest, then that was, that was kind of my starting point.

Diana: unfortunately it was out of, you know, a place of kind of desperation when things started to spiral outta control for me in my late forties. , but, but by doing that and getting to that place where I realized how bad things were, that’s when I started to reach out for professional help. And that was really the only way for me to, to move forward, and it was just, I learned so much about myself and it really freed me up to learn about myself and have compassion for myself. 

Rebecca: But for a long time you feel like you experienced a lot of denial? 

Diana: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Our whole family was so good at at denial and you know, we didn’t know it, I don’t think. But now that now looking back, and, and still in a lot of cases, a lot of the family members still live in a place of denial, which I don’t hold against them because sometimes that’s just how we have to live to be able to do our lives, especially when you come from a very traumatic past, You know, a lot of times that denial is somewhat healthy if I, if there is such a thing.

Diana: But for me, it was, it was serving me fine until it wasn’t. And then once I did start to look at things and ask questions and talk to people in my family. And when I reconnected with my mom and she was so honest with me about how things were, and then she left all those journals behind, or all of her journals behind, then it made me ask even more questions.

Diana: And once I started down that path, I just couldn’t, I couldn’t not keep asking. I didn’t wanna live in that place of denial anymore. I wanted to know everything. 

Rebecca: Right. And that can be scary. Yeah. To find out everything. 

Diana: Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. , It’s scary and it’s shocking and it’s confusing and it’s so many things, but, And it, it’s not for everybody.

Diana: Like, like I said, I lived in denial for a reason. I don’t think I was ready to handle it at a younger age cuz I was, you know, kind of stunted in my emotional health. It was, once I started down the path, I, and I’m still in that mode of wanting to learn and I’m still learning things about my family. It’s, it’s, there’s so much, you know, in our past that’s still being uncovered.

Diana: But, but I, I just wanna know, for me it’s healthier to, to know and deal with even as shitty as things were.. I just wanna know so I can at least face. 

Rebecca: Right. Well, I have faced this same question in my life, and I know others who have, wondered. Mm-hmm. , you know, how healthy is it? Do I really want to know what I mean? What would you say about digging into your past to uncover those secrets? Is it, do you feel like for you it was more beneficial or more painful, or a little bit of both? 

Diana: Well, I think both for sure, but initially it. It was just, I was spiraling so bad emotionally, I was getting really depressed. And when I get depressed, I don’t, I’m not one of those people that curls up in a ball and like hides from society. I get really, kind of neurotic. Mm-hmm. and I, you know, I just kind of, again, I thought I was just an overachiever, but in reality I was trying to distract myself from what was going on in my heart and in my head.

Diana: So once I started, you know, in therapies, and these things started to come up for me and I, you know, cried and cried and cried for that, you know, kind of younger self that I hadn’t ever really been at. Allowed myself to, to feel anything. I just, like I said, I was just so stoic about it that, you know, I was just like, Oh, that was the past and there’s nothing I can do about it.

Diana: And so why, you know, why wallow in what was, But for me, it was necessary to go back and, you know, have compassion for that little child and, and make it feel real to me. And, you know, really just forgive myself. and everybody else who had betrayed me in the past for, you know, for all the damage because, you know, it, it, it just was necessary for me to go there in order for me to move forward.

Diana: I don’t know, I think everybody’s timing is different, but for me it was imperative and, you know, I, I could never go back. I’m so glad I have started down that path. I’m still working on things and it’s, it’s just something that I feel like for my journey moving forward, you know, emotionally and spiritually, and to try to break the patterns for my kids and also remove any stigma from it.

Diana: It’s so necessary for me to look at it and face it and talk about it. 

Rebecca: Right. Distraction is definitely a coping mechanism, and even in speaking with my psychologist, sometimes it’s okay to use distraction to cope, but it can get to the point where it is unhealthy. Right. And as far as, I don’t want to give away any spoilers for people reading your book, but I know that there were parts where you were faced with family members who didn’t want to uncover certain secrets because of who it could hurt. And, I’ve, I’ve seen a lot of that and experienced it in my own family where, you know, an elder, wait, once they passed away, then the secrets were allowed to come out of the closet and people found out they had siblings that they didn’t know about and mm-hmm.

Rebecca: I think. If everyone knew everything, it could be , a little, a little daunting. I think, you know, right? We all have those secrets and you know, perhaps not all of them need to come to light, but when it comes to your own personal emotional healing, I think sometimes it’s important to dig into that past and, and find out the truth.

Rebecca: So in your case, it was beneficial not only for you, but your sisters. 

Diana: Exactly. Exactly. And we, you know, I, it took me so long to write this book that in the meantime, all of my parents have since passed away. And, and really I was kind of happy for that. I think my mom and my stepmom would’ve been proud of me and they would’ve been happy, but my father probably not so much so, so it was, it was probably good timing that they were gone before the book came out.

Diana: But as far as the ones. Are still here. We’ve talked about it a lot and they’ve all been very supportive about it. So that’s understandable. That’s helped. Mm-hmm. . 

Rebecca: So beyond uncovering those secrets and digging into your past and finding ways to address this, what were some other steps that you took to get started on your own personal healing, and then also what steps did you take to help your children start healing?

Diana: Okay. Those are good points. So for myself, it actually, I’m, I always do things the hard way in life. I never take the easy path , so, and I think, I think this is kind of common with mothers, but we tend to wanna take care of everybody else before we take care of ourself. And so for me, learning to take care of myself was a whole new concept.

Diana: So just getting into therapy was one thing, but then also once I started. , you know, doing some things for myself, like, you know, part of my, one of my coping mechanisms has always been, uh, exercise or getting outdoors. That’s kind of my happy place and it’s therapeutic for me, and especially when I’m not doing it, you know, neurotically, , in a healthy way.

Diana: So, I’ve always found that as a good coping mechanism in a way to do self-care for me. And, I started looking into some kind of spiritual care and that was something new to me because, you know, my whole spiritual world consisted of, you know, a background of LDS , teachings. But I, since I had left that so long prior that I hadn’t really developed a lot of spirituality for myself.

Diana: So I. I attended a lot of spiritual workshops and, and read a lot of books and, you know, just started a yoga practice and meditating and all of that. Self care, it turns out, really does help those that are around you that you love. And that was a whole new concept. I had a therapist say to me one time, Cuz, cuz I had, my kids were suffering from all of my adult decisions.

Diana: And I had a therapist say to me once, which was kind of earth shattering, I don’t know why, but he said, All you have to do is to love them and to be happy yourself. And then they’ll have something to emulate. And I was like, What? That’s so amazing. That’s all? So, so just hearing that was very earth shattering to me.

Diana: And then, but, but also with my kids and helping them once I was helping myself, you know, just being open about my past and, you know, letting them ask questions when they were ready and, you know, that, that’s also been very helpful. And then they’ve all kind of gone through emotionals and spiritual journeys, to heal themselves cuz obviously, you know, I reaped a little bit of a, a path of destruction behind me and my kids took an emotional toll. And, I have one son that went through, about a, about a 10 to 12 year bout with alcoholism, and he got himself into rehab and help and is now 12 years sober. And, you know, that kind of thing forces the whole family to go in for, for. And I didn’t realize that was going to be the case.

Diana: But by him suffering with all of that, we all rallied as a family, which I’m so grateful for, that he kind of, you know, was the scapegoat for all of us getting healthier. So it was all very, very positive for us in the end. 

Rebecca: That was wonderful. I did, I read the, the chapter in your book about, how you supported him and I guess, I, I kind of almost chuckled a little bit when it was the part where you were finding out that you were gonna have to participate.

Diana: Yeah, I was like, Wait, this is his thing. How do I have time for this? And again, speaks to my chaos, you know. 

Rebecca: But I think that’s how, I feel like a lot of parents of children with addictions might be surprised to find out that they are, you know, not only encouraged, but in some cases required to participate in that healing process.

Rebecca: And I think it’s amazing that you were able to find the courage because that is a very hard thing for a parent, not only to see their child go through something as difficult as an addiction, but to be part of the process when you feel like you could have contributed to the problem. 

Diana: Absolutely. And I think, I think that is so hard for some to admit that you know, that we are part of the problem and it, it was so important for his healing to hear me apologize for my part in it. Mm-hmm. . And he, I was lucky because I, I didn’t have a son who was angry or bitter against me, or at least, he was more angry and ashamed of himself than he was at me, which, which was, sad for me as a mom to watch him beat himself up, but also he was always very, compassionate towards me and kind of knew what I had been through.

Diana: So by both of us going to that place of vulnerability and apologizing. It moves mountains and it’s just such a small and seemingly effortless process. But it, but it was hard and it was, it was just unbelievably gut wrenching and heartbreaking to watch a child suffer so much, but. But it really, really is so worth it in the end.

Diana: And we still talk about it. It’s still very, much in our, even though it’s been 12 years since he got sober, it’s still very much in our conversations. And, you know, he’s, he’s so grateful every day he’s now married and has two little boys that we all just adore, and I’m just so happy. I’m proud of him.

Rebecca: That’s wonderful. Yeah. I, I’m, I’m very happy to hear that. 

Diana: Thank you. 

Rebecca: And I think as parents, we. Have an easier time forgiving our children right, than we do forgiving our parents. Right? So I know that you had a lot to forgive your parents for and your, your stepmom as well. Mm-hmm. how did you find the courage to forgive. I mean, I know you shared some of your letters in the book and they were just, I got cold chills reading the letters. Oh. How did, how did you find the, the courage and the bravery to just, you know, forgive such neglect and abuse. 

Diana: Well, you know, the, the really, really great thing is, is that both of my parents wrote down a lot of their thoughts and anguish and happy times, and they ju, they journaled, especially my mother as part of her therapy and my dad it, I think it was just a way for him to process thoughts too. Even though their journaling was very much different from each other, and their voices are obviously different and their experiences are, very different, to actually see what they had gone through made it so much easier for me to forgive them because I realized that they too were damaged and broken and I didn’t know that growing up at all.

Diana: In fact, I thought my father was, probably the, the golden child in their family. And he always used to tell us, My, my parents never even spanked me and I never got disciplined. And which might have led partly to his narcissism, but, but I always thought, Why, how did this man that was never abused become so abusive?

Diana: And so, Now going back since he’s been deceased, I’ve gone back and read a lot of his journals that he left behind, and he was suffering with some severe mental illness that I never understood prior to this. And I don’t know where it comes from if it’s just something that he acquired, sadly, genetically or maybe he, maybe he was abused by somebody else, but never talked about it because, you know, our families didn’t talk about these things. 

Diana: For me to just read how, how much anguish he was in emotionally. It just, it was so heartbreaking and it just, it just made me feel bad for him and it made me realize that, you know, he was just doing the best he could.

Diana: I know he loved me in his own way and all my other siblings, he, He just didn’t have a whole lot of tools to work with. And same with my mom. She was, you know, unlike him, he was bipolar, but she was chronically depressed and, Like I said, she was abused and talked about it, but because of where they both came from, you have to, For me, it’s like, it’s hard not to have compassion and understand that they just probably shouldn’t have been parents and especially so early , so early on in their lives, But they were, and they just did the best they could.

Diana: Mm-hmm. and I think they tried. Right. So not to forgive. 

Rebecca: Yes, that does make a lot of sense. And as to what you just mentioned, I do think that genes do play a significant role, uh mm-hmm , you can, you know, have genetic testing done to see, you know, what kind of genes that you inherited from your family as far as your tendency towards mental health. 

Rebecca: But at the same time, you mentioned that your dad never really was disciplined and I, I, this may be crossing a line, but I feel like in some ways, not setting up boundaries for our children, is a form of neglect because children need boundaries to feel loved.

Rebecca: And like you were saying, he became a narcissist, completely self-absorbed with his feelings and his life and his goals and his, you know, just whatever made him happy. Right. And I don’t wanna go too deep into that because I don’t wanna spoil, some things that happened for readers, so I will just move on.

Rebecca: But yeah, I wanted to make note of that because I do think that that’s two important points from what you just said is that genetic testing can definitely help and also, , lack of discipline, lack of boundaries. And I’m not just talking about physical discipline, not just spanking, but any kind of boundaries.

Diana: Right. 

Rebecca: And I think a lot of people have seen that not creating boundaries for children can lead to problems in the future, 

Diana: yeah, Yeah, you’re right about that. I, yeah, I hadn’t thought about that, 

Rebecca: but, I’m glad that you were able to read their journals and writing so that you could see what kind of anguish were experiencing and maybe a little bit about why things happened the way they did, and I’m glad that you were able to forgive them. You say that, Wow, thank you. You were able to find happiness late in life and that it’s never too late. Can you expound upon that? 

Diana: Yeah. , like I said, I, I feel like I was, lucky to have just, you know, taken the path of optimism as a coping mechanism, but I also think that you’re, as far as you know, what you were talking about, just genetic tendencies, I a hundred percent believe that I was born with a resilience gene

Diana: Mm-hmm. . And I’m so grateful because I am very, very resilient as our, most of my siblings and I. Just the combination of being an optimist and also being resilient, have made it, easier for me to press on and to be able to, you know, have hope and, you know, just feel like that there is room for being happy.

Diana: I, it’s not nothing I ever really considered up until my late four forties of just my own happiness. I was always trying to make everybody else. Happy or make everybody else think I was happy. Mm-hmm. , I’ve spent a lot of energy on that, but, you know, I never really had a chance to really think about my own happiness until I got later on in my life.

Diana: And once I started to realize that, That was up to me and only me. It was just so powerful. And, just a little bit of work on it every day or, you know, just, whatever you have time for, it’s, I think it’s just so important to realize that there is hope no matter what your past circumstances are to, you know, create a happy life.

Diana: That doesn’t mean it’s perfect at all, but, I, I feel like, I feel like, you know, there’s always room for improvement, and if it’s important for you to be happy, then you’ll make it happen. 

Rebecca: Wow. That is, that’s a perfect note, to end this podcast episode on. Diana, it has been such a pleasure talking to you, and I want to thank you for being an advocate for mental health, for survivors of Abusive and dysfunctional families, and just commend you for the effort that you’ve made to share your story, which I think has helped a lot of people.

Diana: Oh, I hope so. Thank you so much for that. I appreciate it. 

• Morse & Flavin for the Joint Commission of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence and the American Society of Addiction Medicine to Study the Definition and Criteria for the Diagnosis of Alcoholism: in JAMA 1992;268:1012-4
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